Huge Stock Market Losses

Can we learn from others mistakes?

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Bulletin Board Market chatter;

http://www.advfn.com/
http://www.lse.co.uk/

Tuesday 20 December 2016

My stock market losses over 10 years

I think in every traders life, there is a point where he/she will print off the entire history of their trading and start by analysing the painful mistakes.

I have just printed off some 50 sheets dating from 2006 from my normal account (lots of doomed penny stocks), and from my ISA account.

I have never done this before, and finally I am at a stage to do so. I'll be tabulating it in a spreadsheet also.

I will list the ticker symbols later in this thread - it'll be a walk down memory lane!


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It is done, it took about 3 hours of crunching.

The average hold time is 3 months, which surprised me. No system, no risk management, just finger in the wind. Rudderless if you like.

Overall, a big loss. I would put a number on it, as this being the "Stock market tuition fee." Cheaper than one year of a University tuition fee today, but more than buying a sandwich! I have learned a lot and it will be unlikely I will be lured by a tip or some penny stock these days.  


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 Wow the difference between the main account and the ISA account is eye opening. No wonder AIM shares were not initially allowed into ISAs.

My ISA account finished up by nearly £1000. This is with the same rookie type finger in the air type of guess trading as with the other account.

This is incredible, and shows the danger with risky penny shares, and companies which are loss making.

The average holding time is also almost double at 7.7 months. 


BACKGROUND - ISA CGT tax protected accounts only allow stocks from the main exchange. There are better regulated, and generally are not loss making. Only in recent years has the Chancellor allowed AIM shares into ISA accounts. AIM shares are generally growth companies, loss making, and are riskier penny shares.

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I have removed dates, and values and share numbers like the other table. If it is too small, you can press Control and + together to increase the size incrementally, and Control and - to go back a step.

I thought I had bought Subsea resources at some point. It looks like I didn't. It was a under sea exploration company that would go to ship wrecks and dig out copper, silver and gold bars. Just like that! It was a magazine tip, that turned out to be a disaster!

But look at the opportunity...! 




Mistakes and Findings

-I invested in far too many pie in the sky ideas. Generally, I bought too many junior mining/exploration/ CEO champagne lifestyle companies. I then got cold feet after 1 or 2 months OR if the price dropped, and I took a small loss.

-The only mining companies that made me money, was during the boom. Notably I made a 4 figure some from a junior gas company - luckily I sold because soon after it went bust. It wasn't skill, it was luck. Anybody can make money in the right sector that is hot, at the right time. You have to look for the right sectors to be in.

-I loss hugely if I got too attached to the company, and started to get too involved, by reading every news piece and every bulletin board piece. I thought the CEO was telling the truth and that there was going to be more jam tomorrow. The next drilling result would be a bonanza find. Rio Tinto was going to bid for the company! The stock price would start to go up, but instead of selling, I would hold or add. Great news ahead? Except, a large placing would take place, and the stock would drop like a stone. It would be weeks of further small drops - I was dying slowly by a thousand cuts.

-Most if not all of the penny stocks, even today, are lower than when I bought them. They amounted to NOTHING.

-Penny stocks are really generally awful 90% of the time (with the exception of a red hot bull market in the sector). And 95% of the stocks are AWFUL. Having AIM penny stocks barred from the ISA account was the difference between a £1000 profit and a 5 figure loss. This is eye opening stuff to all future traders and investors out there.

-Chinese AIM companies have had a lot of bad press lately, but during the boom years, they did really well for me. The non fraudulent companies made me 5 figure profits. When the bust came, the frauds came to the front and the real companies left AIM for the main exchanges in Hong Kong. These companies include West China Cement and Renesola.

-Penny stocks, which I regard as having share prices of less than 20p, and market caps of less than £100m to £50m. They were barely profitable trades, as they were difficult to get out of at break even because of their low liquidity, and wide bid and ask spread. They typically have a spread of 20%. So when I bought, the stock stock had to just increase by at least 20% just to get out even - not possible in a slow market and my average holding time being 3 months.

-The very worst stocks were the sub penny stocks. They lost me a small fortune because they kept issuing stock like confetti. Not only that, it was easy to delude yourself that 1m shares could turn into £1m. It isn't going to happen, the odds are not in your favour. The bid and ask spreads were even worse. They were the most easy to trap yourself in - the stock can drop 25% in a day and the spread could widen massively. I made the cardinal sin of adding to my losses by adding in share placings. I was throwing good money after bad. The two sub penny stocks I remember vividly were Atlantic Coal and Erix Therapeutics - both now delisted.

Call me "mug punter". I got the T-shirt, been there and done that!


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Biggest Regrets.

-Not buying to big winners that existed in the market such as ASOS, and Rightmove. I thought I knew everything about the stock market, and didn't need to read the subject. I had read one book, I think it was Robbie Burns's Naked Trader. It helped me largely take small losses. But I needed to keep reading if I was to learn. I regret not reading more in the earlier years.

-Believing the talking heads, that the precious metals would come back. There was going to imminent Weimar hyperinflation, and that the financial system was going to collapse permanently. The FED does not know what it is doing with QE, and we will be resorting back to bartering and hoarding tins of baked beans.

-I made good money during the mining boom years, but kept the "faith" that the bull market would come back after 2011. It did not.

-Not understanding bull and bear markets. No matter how good you were at stock picking, even if you picked the best company in the whole world, it was NOT going to go up if the general market was flat or going down. I had to work on market awareness and patience - PATIENCE!

-Not being born in the right time so I could make a fortune in the dot com bubble. Only joking - I don't think I would change what I have done. I learn and move on.

Which book turned the light on.
It was Turtle Trader by Curtis Faith. It helped turn a nice profit in Hochschild mining. I look back and there were some 20 trades in and out - which netted me a low 4 figure some. Looking back, it looked like a lot of work for little reward, however it was the birth pangs of a new beginning to my understanding the market. Like a baby chicken trying to break through an egg shell. Turtle Trader was just a stepping stone, it does not complete the puzzle - it was just one piece closer to completing the 1000 piece puzzle!

Friday 9 December 2016

FRP *60% drop*

That's your view. I totally disagree. I'll express myself in whatever language that I wish to. Having just lost £10k today due to these clueless ***kers at FRP, I'll use as many C and F words as I bloody well want to. If you find that offensive, tough.

Let's have a quieter conversation once I've calmed down on Monday maybe?

P.
I agree with ********. Almost every attempt by legal or accountancy firms to list has ended in disaster. Begbies Traynor is a shining example of last man standing in this area.

P.
what the hell is wrong with you?!

You have some prudish ideas of what is acceptable! I don't. If people rip me off, I'll wring their F****** necks in public - why don't you too???


I've got 2 words for the Directors of****** - lying *****.

I've lost £10k on this today. Thankfully, not a big deal. But I could still wring the necks of the t****** running this company.

Things looked somehow wrong here for a long time. They lied through their teeth in recent RNSs and other communications with shareholders. Make a note of the names of these *****, and don't ever back them again.

P.

PS. Sack all of them! Without compensation. Greedy, useless *******

Wednesday 28 September 2016

GKP


Job finished fri.

Social welfare from monday.

1 million lost here from highs.

Now not pot to piss.

Many others lost lots too.

Fuck i wish never heard gkp or read bb .

I was a clown and foolish but by fook gkp makes life hard.

When company states it has 22 billion barrels .moves out AIM and worth 4 billion .
You would imagine that with 80p average that risk of losing all should not occur.
How naive .

Sure your health is your wealth.

How is this companys fall from grace not all over papers.
Not that it would do any good to my bank balance.But fook someone should be made accountable.


Anyway.Better off staying away.

Atb
K

Friday 18 March 2016

GKP




its the final come down ...... tata ta ta ta aaaaaaa

£ 25000 down the drain :)

i think the wife prefers to have a heart attack then to know that this happened

so .....hmmmm . i think i am gona tell her :)

Tuesday 23 February 2016

Broker Recommendations

J.B. writes: My wife and I have spent three years arguing our case against stockbroker WH Ireland. The broker acted for us for many years but invested in inappropriate shares in companies that mostly went bankrupt. 
We have lost more than £500,000. The Financial Ombudsman Service found in our favour and we were awarded the maximum £150,000 plus interest, but with the recommendation that the broker returns us to the position we would have been in if it had not invested so recklessly. 

Monday 11 January 2016

Paragon Diamonds *Delisted*

Basically Paragon is finished, along with my £44k, I'm coming to terms with it.

Oxus *Suspended*

Had a really pleasant family Christmas, but then today the grim reality has returned to my thoughts, the fact that I really have lost every penny of my investments in OXS and PRG, all in a 24 hour period!
Bollocks to AIM, I'm finished with it.
But don't worry brokers, there'll be another mug along to replace me any moment.

Waved goodbye to £86k. It was always a remote possibility. This is AIM after all.

Well AIM has royally shafted me in December.
Both my 2nd and 3rd largest holdings (30% of my portfolio) wiped out.
PRG will return 0p, and just today OXS which I have held and accumulated for 5 years was suspended as they 100% lost a long running arbitration.
They will return 0p too.

My largest holding, GVC, is set to move to a main listing in Feb. Following that, I will never, EVER, hold an AIM share again. It's been disastrous.

Atlantic Coal ATC *Delisted*

RNS
Today 16:48
Resolution 1:

To cancel the admission of the Company's ordinary shares to trading on AIM

2,020,804,645

77.11% (YES TO DELIST)

599,918,804

22.89% (NO TO DELIST)

Well done. It was very close then. Just shows how many were opposed. We know the majority of Yes was the board, Spring and Brewin, so shows them how the private investors felt. I bet they were bricking it, because they knew it wasn't in the bag.

No doubt we will get their smug tweet saying how delighted they were with the support of investors. All 6 of them and the rest voted No.

I actually think they should consider the number of voters as well the number of votes. How unfair is it that maybe 200 - 300 investors vote No and possibly as little as 20 vote Yes but because of the size of their holdings 20 wins.
Personally i wish them as much unluck as possible and hope they lose their shirts. No bitterness here. I will retract that statement only if they provide a useable trading platform and give us a clear timeline for a possible re-list.

Finished. I own 10k of what now. Long six years to have nothing. Goodbye all.

I won't be getting rid of anything as its in my share dealing account. Just have to wait and see what happens. It's just demoralising for holders. Just as we were getting good rns's this happens. We put up a fight though well done all. How can you trade this share now or salvage money out. If this doesn't go to another stock exchange. Lost it all. Well I only have one glimmer of hope now. And that's if edenville energy get there mining license. Again a company I been in 6 years. 2 gone BHR ATC. I'd say not looking good my three biggest investments. 2 gone 1 to go. Least I can afford a beer. So not all bad.

Yet another failed share I got out half my holdings prior but still loose 500 pounds and not the first time. Isn't TW often commenting th perils of AIM investing he's often wrong in some reports but not with that wisdom. It will not be that's company that PIs will invest in we do chase the dreams but often pay a high price.

Move on to the next one

Sunday 10 January 2016

Oxus *Suspended*


STOCKS and SHARES play tricks with your mind.
Would an ORDINARY chap or chappette go to a casino and bung £500 to £10,000 on RED or BLACK? Answer no, only a "high roller" would normally blow that sort of money on a single bet.

But when it comes to shares our brains sort of turn to mush and we take all sorts of risks we would not do at a casino, or football pools or horses.

I whacked £1,000 on this. I'm hoping I might get some back, eventually... But I'd never have done it if I was down a casino, I'd just put £10 at most.

No blame to OXS, the entire blame is how our minds view stocks and shares compared to other gambles. When it comes to shares we immediately think in terms of hundreds and thousands - this is all WRONG!!!! The blame should be with the BROKERS and MARKET MAKERS who charge so much that is IMPOSSIBLE to bet £10 and make a profit. The evil villans are the MARKET MAKERS and BROKERS. They take way more from you than the Mafia owners of casinos do.
This being said, like most of you, I do have a wide and diverse portfolio of shares and investments, so in the scheme of things its "win some and lose some". The problem now is my winners have to win so much more just for me to break even!!! So it is annoying. Especially since the entire market is pretty rubbish at present. Good luck and commiserations to every one.

Oxus *Suspended*



Sorry not on the internet much.

First, the good or bad news: I am finished (as a result of the announcement on 23/12/15. Second, I don’t blame anybody but myself (Mr Shead warned about ‘risk’ at one AGM). Third, I am busy bringing on a product for sale that I hope will get exports. Fourth, I have learnt from my mistakes with Oxus.

I haven’t had time to read the thread since before the announcement, and haven’t read any RNSs since, if there have been any. I assume there is nothing I can add that hasn’t already been said by other, more knowledgeable posters. The financial loss to me is a disaster, but it hasn’t all been bad: I’ve improved my risk analysis skills, skills which are now redundant, but that is life. I’ve learnt to write better and I’ve improved my ability to understand accounts better.

The technical points I’ve learnt are:

that contingent liabs are too remote a possibility to be called a debt, but that can change, so the contract of adhesion could result in Oxus owing a debt to the Uzbeks, I assume;

that the reason to conceal the Calunius reward-sharing scheme was not what I thought but to hide a risk: if we had lost the case completely we would be more solvent, I assume, i.e. owe Calunius nothing;

that failed financings disconnect the right to claim for lost profits;
that bad news takes several RNSs, so I don’t expect anything good to come out now: resigned to losing my entire stake here.

With the benefit of hindsight, I sincerely apologise for my over enthusiasm on this stock.

Is there anything I am puzzled about? Yes, I can’t understand how a financing can fail, if the host country provides favourable investment conditions (as it has to, according to Article 2 of the Treaty) and if gold prices are reasonable and if costs of extraction are in the bottom quartile. The tricky part I missed is that deciding whether a mine is financeable going forward is different from looking back and deciding the same thing.

If anyone posts any responses to this, I will try to read them in a few weeks’ time. All the best.

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Risk Strategy - Nobull and Papillon

Nobull, thank goodness you're ok and I thought you'd bounce back. Loved your posts over the years. Background stuff was great reading and second to none - you were one of the most genuine and thoughtful posters.

I'm at a loss, though, to reconcile your afterthoughts with what came before.
You were one of the investors who were adamant you were staying 'til the end come what may - death or glory, 100% faith, Into the Valley of Death rode the 600, all or nothing etc..

Why on earth did that mentality prevail? - and , more importantly, why have you now re-assessed your risk strategy?
Surely if this (on the flip of a coin - Tercier) had gone the other way, you'd have won , so would you have re-assessed your risk strategy then?

The point is that Win or Lose, that risk strategy was totally flawed. I thought it was madness to be honest. This 'all in' stuff wasn't a strategy, it was an emboldened mindset.

The main thing this message board totally lacked was Critical Thinking and Objective analysis. You're science trained Nobull, and you made the perennial scientist mistake ie pre-determining a conclusion and working towards that. Ignoring evidence in its way..and there was much.

The main mistake was to Conflate three things : 1)Uzbek's general corruption, 2)How much gold we had in the ground, and 3) our chances of victory.
All 3 seemed to be wrongly interlinked by many on here.


Papillon's Horse race analogy.

Yes, we had a race horse, which appeared to be in fair to good health, although a bit tattered from previous races over the years.

What did the Uzbeks have in their stable? We did NOT KNOW at all.

BUT we did know that it had the World's best trainers (Lamm and Case), it had never lost a race (The Uzbeks in Arbitration) and that it had been preened and brought to the race in the best condition it could be (by lawyer funds, Lamm's Uzbek Knowledge)
It was then rode in the race by a world's top Jockey - Stern

And by simply looking at statistics, we saw that in this type of race (overall international arbitration) we had a less than 20% chance of getting anything substantial - ie ODDS ON.

So, Papillon, if you continue to use this blinkered outlook , you'll continue to lose money.
I want everyone to make money and be healthy and happy. I know my previous words were tough love. But that's where they came from. I don't want anyone to lose giant amounts of cash. It goes through me like a dagger.

Good luck and nice to hear from you again Nobull - and good luck in your new venture


(ps For those who think I'm using hindsight here - take a look at my posts on December 15 where I speculated, using past accounts, Yearly Statements that the outcome may be similar to how it turned out. I wasn't sure (that's why I left some money in), but I was certainly getting worried.
One things for sure, I was definitely not thinking along the lines of most posters.
This Message Board opened my eyes - and I've learned a lot - but in a different way.

Tuesday 5 January 2016

ATC *Suspended*


Ultimately any minority shareholder is at risk. That is democracy.
I like you are disappointed but how many stocks have gone to the wall. 5 years ago there were 4500 Aim stocks now there are less than 1500. That says it all.

RGM


Thank you for your post. I agree with you. We have both been here a few years now and have seen ups and downs.

Like you, I am also down six figures at the moment, but I now genuinely feel the worst is over in my opinion which is why I have now increased my holding to around 3%. We will see.

All the very best to the genuine stockholders. As for the rest, if you. have lost I genuinely feel sorry for you but I don't feel it is good for you to keep posting on here.

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No wonder rtayya is bitter he said on the TIDE website last Friday "as I have a lot of money to make up for family having lost £100k in regency mines."

ps I have lost a similar amount, having invested with AB, since 2011. But although unlikely to get my original stake back, I firmly believe that having reduced staff from 25 to 17 , and now 3 . Hence substantially reducing need for working capital, 2016 should be a much better place here and with RRR. Especially the latter as ca. £420k raised from selling some shares in SRT. And still >A$400k 's worth to sell, as and when.