JAF1948 - 27 Oct'09 - 16:43 - 5779 of 5786
ws,
You'll never change ! Why let a silly thing like the fact that Barty lost all his investment in CR stop your idiotic postings (about £1.5 million I reckon).
I lost £80,000 but I've moved on. Perhaps you should too.
Tuesday, 27 October 2009
Tuesday, 14 July 2009
28. Coffee Republic *Delisted*
winning_streak - 14 Jul'09 - 12:28 - 5497 of 5498
And, Cricketer, IGNORE JAF - he will make out he's your friend then him, and all his little cronies will start insulting you and calling you a loser because you should have done your own research before parting with your well earned dosh!!!! They ripped £320k off crdirect. Took a franchise from one franchisee while he was in a coma in hospital - took one guys two franchises from him after he had organised a buyer for the one and sold them to the purchaser organised by the franchisee!! Took 4 franchisees from another chap, They repossess stores without giving notice and give you non of the support and training the promise you before they take their money - you have had a lucky escape in just losing a deposit, believe me.
Carwhite - 14 Jul'09 - 12:36 - 5498 of 5498
fully concur winning_streak
And, Cricketer, IGNORE JAF - he will make out he's your friend then him, and all his little cronies will start insulting you and calling you a loser because you should have done your own research before parting with your well earned dosh!!!! They ripped £320k off crdirect. Took a franchise from one franchisee while he was in a coma in hospital - took one guys two franchises from him after he had organised a buyer for the one and sold them to the purchaser organised by the franchisee!! Took 4 franchisees from another chap, They repossess stores without giving notice and give you non of the support and training the promise you before they take their money - you have had a lucky escape in just losing a deposit, believe me.
Carwhite - 14 Jul'09 - 12:36 - 5498 of 5498
fully concur winning_streak
Monday, 13 July 2009
27. Coffee Republic *Delisted*
paulmhammond - 13 Jul'09 - 17:02 - 5474 of 5478
I removed it quickly, as I know you are popular here. I've just lost a small fortune, so really, don't push it, I might just react badly to it.
I removed it quickly, as I know you are popular here. I've just lost a small fortune, so really, don't push it, I might just react badly to it.
Sunday, 12 July 2009
26. Coffee Republic *Delisted*
JAF1948 - 11 Jul'09 - 16:04 - 5441 of 5449
I'm back from a nice cruise and have just spend an hour or so reading this board.
WS, I have to say that I have never read so much bile, spite, and ignorant 2+2=5 writings by one person (yourself) in any place in my life. You have no idea what is going on, you have no idea what has happened this week and you have no idea what will happen in the future. You should count your blessings that Coffee Republic and/or Stephen Bartlett do not have sufficient money to sue you for libel and defamation. Despite the company failing, there is still no evidence of any wrongdoing by anyone.
I have lost a great deal of money, but it was my decision to invest and I stand by that decision.
I'm back from a nice cruise and have just spend an hour or so reading this board.
WS, I have to say that I have never read so much bile, spite, and ignorant 2+2=5 writings by one person (yourself) in any place in my life. You have no idea what is going on, you have no idea what has happened this week and you have no idea what will happen in the future. You should count your blessings that Coffee Republic and/or Stephen Bartlett do not have sufficient money to sue you for libel and defamation. Despite the company failing, there is still no evidence of any wrongdoing by anyone.
I have lost a great deal of money, but it was my decision to invest and I stand by that decision.
Friday, 10 July 2009
25. Coffee Republic *Delisted*
winning_streak - 9 Jul'09 - 14:03 - 5342 of 5422
Well Paul, I'd own up to everything because you ain't going to walk away from this with any money anyway and well you know - so TELL THE TRUTH and make sure these crooks get what's coming to them - remember - Dan LOST £320k to them so, watch yourself.
---
winning_streak - 10 Jul'09 - 14:50 - 5413 of 5422
Lordkendal - it is a lot to lose, £160k. I am glad you have other assets to fall back on too. Do you know how much each franchisee that has had their store taken loses? Quite a lot more than £160k!! Also, did you know that a lot of these franchisees re-mortgaged their houses to make that investment - these people were not as smart as you - they were sold dreams by the dream makers at cr. Mis-sold imo with false verbal promises of turning over £500k a year after a couple of years - what they weren't told it they would get to keep their shop for 6 - 12 months, knowing that they were going to fail and then, cr would take back the shop and sell it on again to another unsuspecting, gullible person and the cycle would start again.
Well Paul, I'd own up to everything because you ain't going to walk away from this with any money anyway and well you know - so TELL THE TRUTH and make sure these crooks get what's coming to them - remember - Dan LOST £320k to them so, watch yourself.
---
winning_streak - 10 Jul'09 - 14:50 - 5413 of 5422
Lordkendal - it is a lot to lose, £160k. I am glad you have other assets to fall back on too. Do you know how much each franchisee that has had their store taken loses? Quite a lot more than £160k!! Also, did you know that a lot of these franchisees re-mortgaged their houses to make that investment - these people were not as smart as you - they were sold dreams by the dream makers at cr. Mis-sold imo with false verbal promises of turning over £500k a year after a couple of years - what they weren't told it they would get to keep their shop for 6 - 12 months, knowing that they were going to fail and then, cr would take back the shop and sell it on again to another unsuspecting, gullible person and the cycle would start again.
24. Coffee Republic *Delisted*
lordkendal - 10 Jul'09 - 11:50 - 5376 of 5422
I'm inclined to believe Daimonbok's prognosis but I’d like to also believe in WelshG as where there's life there's hope?? However I have mentally written off my £160k. It would be a very big surprise to discover all maybe not lost after all?? Where to get the truth??
---
lordkendal - 10 Jul'09 - 16:39 - 5417 of 5422
Daimonbok
Happy to have made someone happy today :-))
WS
When I was in business I also mortgaged and borrowed vast amounts when necessary. I never bought a franchise, as I was clever and creative enough to create my own business either from absolutely nothing in an empty building or taking over loss making businesses, all of which I owned 100%. I personally took all the risks and I personally took all the profits.
I did have a philosophy of not believing anything I was told and only 50% of what I saw. This stood me in good stead over the years. Everything in writing and I mean everything, nothing verbally, if said put it in writing.
Expect that everyone will want to have what you have and take preventative measures. In 40 years of running my own companies nobody took anything from me apart from the staff who thought it was their perks to pilfer, until I caught them!!
I am truly sorry for any franchisee who has been ill treated by anyone. I have seen, over the last 40 years a great many people who have failed mostly because of their own inadequacies but I do have sympathy for those who have failed because of the actions of others.
I can well live with the loss of £160k it just means I will buy an apartment overlooking the Med rather than a Villa however I do know some shareholders who have been badly affected and may not ever recover from their loss.
So it would appear that we are all losers, from both sides of the fence. I know that there is a really strong sense of abuse of trust and betrayal by SB from the shareholders, which I guess, is pretty much the same from all.
lordkendal - 10 Jul'09 - 23:05 - 5430 of 5431
Thanks Guy's looks as if i'm in for a bit of travelling.
Dan. You forget i can now only afford a small appartment :-)
WS
Believe me I feel £160k's worth of pain. I have left no pain myself on others only the pain I suffer for my greed in thinking that CR was a sure thing. Goes to show that even an experienced caterer like myself can come unstuck but then again I wasn’t running it, if I had I can guarantee you the outcome would have been different.
I'm inclined to believe Daimonbok's prognosis but I’d like to also believe in WelshG as where there's life there's hope?? However I have mentally written off my £160k. It would be a very big surprise to discover all maybe not lost after all?? Where to get the truth??
---
lordkendal - 10 Jul'09 - 16:39 - 5417 of 5422
Daimonbok
Happy to have made someone happy today :-))
WS
When I was in business I also mortgaged and borrowed vast amounts when necessary. I never bought a franchise, as I was clever and creative enough to create my own business either from absolutely nothing in an empty building or taking over loss making businesses, all of which I owned 100%. I personally took all the risks and I personally took all the profits.
I did have a philosophy of not believing anything I was told and only 50% of what I saw. This stood me in good stead over the years. Everything in writing and I mean everything, nothing verbally, if said put it in writing.
Expect that everyone will want to have what you have and take preventative measures. In 40 years of running my own companies nobody took anything from me apart from the staff who thought it was their perks to pilfer, until I caught them!!
I am truly sorry for any franchisee who has been ill treated by anyone. I have seen, over the last 40 years a great many people who have failed mostly because of their own inadequacies but I do have sympathy for those who have failed because of the actions of others.
I can well live with the loss of £160k it just means I will buy an apartment overlooking the Med rather than a Villa however I do know some shareholders who have been badly affected and may not ever recover from their loss.
So it would appear that we are all losers, from both sides of the fence. I know that there is a really strong sense of abuse of trust and betrayal by SB from the shareholders, which I guess, is pretty much the same from all.
lordkendal - 10 Jul'09 - 23:05 - 5430 of 5431
Thanks Guy's looks as if i'm in for a bit of travelling.
Dan. You forget i can now only afford a small appartment :-)
WS
Believe me I feel £160k's worth of pain. I have left no pain myself on others only the pain I suffer for my greed in thinking that CR was a sure thing. Goes to show that even an experienced caterer like myself can come unstuck but then again I wasn’t running it, if I had I can guarantee you the outcome would have been different.
Thursday, 9 July 2009
23. Coffee Republic *Delisted*
winning_streak - 9 Jul'09 - 20:04 - 5358 of 5358
But, don't let barstlett win ffs - KPMG do not find it even a misdemeanour that he stripped out his shop in Plymouth on Friday last. They know nothing about the churning and have set a deadline of Monday for closed bids. 83 requests for company details have been received - 2 of which are from contacts of mine - the details have NOT been received. This is all a heap of s**t and needs some pressure put on KPMG at the very least - as shareholders - put pressure on them - or lie there and just take it!!!! Paul £100k is it? Dan's 7 mates £100k each - That's £800k going down the toilet - barstlett needs to start paying the price of his shoddy scam.
But, don't let barstlett win ffs - KPMG do not find it even a misdemeanour that he stripped out his shop in Plymouth on Friday last. They know nothing about the churning and have set a deadline of Monday for closed bids. 83 requests for company details have been received - 2 of which are from contacts of mine - the details have NOT been received. This is all a heap of s**t and needs some pressure put on KPMG at the very least - as shareholders - put pressure on them - or lie there and just take it!!!! Paul £100k is it? Dan's 7 mates £100k each - That's £800k going down the toilet - barstlett needs to start paying the price of his shoddy scam.
Monday, 19 January 2009
Volkswagen *Bought by Porsche*
Adolf Merckle (18 March 1934 – 5 January 2009) was a businessman, stock trader, and one of the richest people in Germany.[1]
Merckle was born in Dresden, Germany into a wealthy family. Most of his wealth came from inheritance. He developed his Bohemian (i.e. Czech) grandfather's chemical wholesale company into Germany's largest pharmaceutical wholesaler, Phoenix Pharmahandel. His family also owns the generic drug manufacturer Ratiopharm, and large parts of cement company HeidelbergCement as well as vehicle manufacturer Kässbohrer.
He was educated as a lawyer but spent most of his time investing. He lived in Germany with his wife and four children.
Merckle made a speculative investment based on his belief that Volkswagen shares would fall; however, in October 2008, Porsche SE's support of Volkswagen sent shares on the Xetra dax from €210.85 to over €1000 in less than two days (a short squeeze), resulting in losses estimated in the hundreds of millions of dollars for Merckle.[2]
In 2007, he was worth US$12.8 billion by most estimates (Forbes), and by December 2008 he was worth $9.2 billion, a loss of $3.6 billion. In 2006, he was the world's 44th richest man, dropping to 96th place by December 2008, but still one of Germany's five richest men.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Merckle
Merckle was born in Dresden, Germany into a wealthy family. Most of his wealth came from inheritance. He developed his Bohemian (i.e. Czech) grandfather's chemical wholesale company into Germany's largest pharmaceutical wholesaler, Phoenix Pharmahandel. His family also owns the generic drug manufacturer Ratiopharm, and large parts of cement company HeidelbergCement as well as vehicle manufacturer Kässbohrer.
He was educated as a lawyer but spent most of his time investing. He lived in Germany with his wife and four children.
Merckle made a speculative investment based on his belief that Volkswagen shares would fall; however, in October 2008, Porsche SE's support of Volkswagen sent shares on the Xetra dax from €210.85 to over €1000 in less than two days (a short squeeze), resulting in losses estimated in the hundreds of millions of dollars for Merckle.[2]
In 2007, he was worth US$12.8 billion by most estimates (Forbes), and by December 2008 he was worth $9.2 billion, a loss of $3.6 billion. In 2006, he was the world's 44th richest man, dropping to 96th place by December 2008, but still one of Germany's five richest men.
Suicide
Adolf Merckle committed suicide on 5 January 2009 by throwing himself in front of a train near his hometown of Blaubeuren.[3][4] More than any other single investment, Merckle’s poorly timed short-selling of Volkswagen shares caused the financial distress that led to his death. Believing that Porsche could not complete its takeover of Volkswagen and would have to sell its shares, Merckle and others bet against Volkswagen stock. But Porsche had quietly and effectively cornered Volkswagen stock, so short-sellers such as Merckle could not buy enough Volkswagen stock to cover their short positions. Volkswagen stock therefore quintupled in value in a single day, causing billions in losses for those who had bet against Volkswagen's share price. Faced with such losses, Merckle's cement company was unable to make payments on a huge loan taken out to purchase an English competitor, Hanson.[5]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Merckle
Saturday, 20 December 2008
22. Bradford and Bingley *Nationalised and sold to Satander*
Daytraders - 20 Dec'08 - 20:02 - 4590 of 4590
jimtidyeh strange aint it, like i had 7K BB shares now worthless overnight, and then they go bail out all the other banks days later, so why not BB bank i was gutted, i feel for all you woolworths holders.
From WLW thread
jimtidyeh strange aint it, like i had 7K BB shares now worthless overnight, and then they go bail out all the other banks days later, so why not BB bank i was gutted, i feel for all you woolworths holders.
From WLW thread
Monday, 15 December 2008
21. Brinkley Mining
gluefactory - 2 Jul'08 - 22:32 - 1852 of 2067
Well over £20k down on this investment at todays levels,but still confident that manipulation on a major scale is happening.When the share bombed by over 40% today under 700k(totalling under £20k) in shares had been traded and they were a mix of buys and sells.What reason would I distress sell? None.I am in for the long haul on this one as I am confident that we will win out.Why bring the price down? If in the next few days an "offer" of 4p or so is made,it appears that this is a premium of 100%,which we all know is not reality. Look over at FEP.An offer of 48p has been made on a share which suffered more devaluation than we are currently enduring,and in my view that one has also been manipulated.On the plus side of BRM is the reality that we have £11 million in the bank at the last accounts stage(and hey,that was only two weeks ago) plus a number of options which in time may bear reward.God I hate shares.Give me horses any day!!!!
Well over £20k down on this investment at todays levels,but still confident that manipulation on a major scale is happening.When the share bombed by over 40% today under 700k(totalling under £20k) in shares had been traded and they were a mix of buys and sells.What reason would I distress sell? None.I am in for the long haul on this one as I am confident that we will win out.Why bring the price down? If in the next few days an "offer" of 4p or so is made,it appears that this is a premium of 100%,which we all know is not reality. Look over at FEP.An offer of 48p has been made on a share which suffered more devaluation than we are currently enduring,and in my view that one has also been manipulated.On the plus side of BRM is the reality that we have £11 million in the bank at the last accounts stage(and hey,that was only two weeks ago) plus a number of options which in time may bear reward.God I hate shares.Give me horses any day!!!!
Wednesday, 3 December 2008
20. Altona Resources
patent2 - 2 Dec'08 - 16:59 - 1631 of 1636
ive lost thousands here but cannot see any other outcome but administration with the chinese taking full control.
ive lost thousands here but cannot see any other outcome but administration with the chinese taking full control.
Wednesday, 26 November 2008
19. Woolworths *BUST* and Taylor Wimpey
warranty - 26 Nov'08 - 19:35 - 1801 of 1805
Deanroberthunt, thanks for comparing Woolies and TW with PFD. I have shares in both those as well unfortunately and not bought recently after the shares have been trashed either. They're in my ISA and I'm currently down about £60k on the pair of them!!!Think I'll ever see it back??
Deanroberthunt, thanks for comparing Woolies and TW with PFD. I have shares in both those as well unfortunately and not bought recently after the shares have been trashed either. They're in my ISA and I'm currently down about £60k on the pair of them!!!Think I'll ever see it back??
18. Woolworths *BUST*
dutch22 - 26 Nov'08 - 09:22 - 2171 of 2560
can someone here please offer me some advice, i bought wlw shares on T20(due for payment next week), as the shares are now suspended, do i have the right to contact TDW, to cancel the payment for these shares next week,approx £10K. Thanks.
6NAT - 26 Nov'08 - 18:19 - 2465 of 2571
57K isn't so bad dutch I bet others are far worse than that
can someone here please offer me some advice, i bought wlw shares on T20(due for payment next week), as the shares are now suspended, do i have the right to contact TDW, to cancel the payment for these shares next week,approx £10K. Thanks.
6NAT - 26 Nov'08 - 18:19 - 2465 of 2571
57K isn't so bad dutch I bet others are far worse than that
Friday, 21 November 2008
17. Angus And Ross
Moister - 24 Sep'08 - 08:01 - 5097 of 5224
Well i got £30,000 worth at 4p not a happy bunny! Looks like 1p it will be. Lets hope the funding stays in place then we should see a healthy rise.
Well i got £30,000 worth at 4p not a happy bunny! Looks like 1p it will be. Lets hope the funding stays in place then we should see a healthy rise.
16. Woolworths
pjdeery - 21 Nov'08 - 14:22 - 960 of 1095
To add some more joy to the posters that are having such fun seeing the WLW share price crash. I hold 1.2 million all paid for. Should they go bust i lose £172,000 real cash.
Like i said i am a gambler.That is a real gamble and if any off the laughing crew on here want to gloat feel free.
To add some more joy to the posters that are having such fun seeing the WLW share price crash. I hold 1.2 million all paid for. Should they go bust i lose £172,000 real cash.
Like i said i am a gambler.That is a real gamble and if any off the laughing crew on here want to gloat feel free.
15. Woolworths
BigM - 21 Nov'08 - 23:06 - 1086 of 1095
Davy you sound thoroughly pee'd off, and rightly so.If only they had got rid of Bish the previous year I feel that Woolies would have been in with a fighting chance, who knows.I would like to say though that you have obviously spent many hours digging up research, and providing very informative posts throughout..........Well done matey & I wish you well in your future investments.PS: Hope you managed to get enough of your money back in order for you to survive, although I have lost £22k here, I am sure I will be able to make it back & more with my other investments.I personally hope Woolies makes it for your sake!!!Regards BigM.
Davy you sound thoroughly pee'd off, and rightly so.If only they had got rid of Bish the previous year I feel that Woolies would have been in with a fighting chance, who knows.I would like to say though that you have obviously spent many hours digging up research, and providing very informative posts throughout..........Well done matey & I wish you well in your future investments.PS: Hope you managed to get enough of your money back in order for you to survive, although I have lost £22k here, I am sure I will be able to make it back & more with my other investments.I personally hope Woolies makes it for your sake!!!Regards BigM.
14. LED International
bi1l - 6 Oct'07 - 16:58 - 3429 of 3673
On paper I,ve lost 10grand on this POS - talk about being LED up the garden path ! And if i'd known Hoodless were pumping it i woouldn't have touched it with a bargepole !But then suddenly everything may change.
Results ( if we ever get them and if they haven't replaced the FD then they will probably be a tad late) may show a different position. I have my doubts, but the concept is still good, so it must be something to do with the rather dubious management and the lack of any info on new contracts.
Anyway i've written this one off - you win some / you lose some - so from my point of view it can only get better!
On paper I,ve lost 10grand on this POS - talk about being LED up the garden path ! And if i'd known Hoodless were pumping it i woouldn't have touched it with a bargepole !But then suddenly everything may change.
Results ( if we ever get them and if they haven't replaced the FD then they will probably be a tad late) may show a different position. I have my doubts, but the concept is still good, so it must be something to do with the rather dubious management and the lack of any info on new contracts.
Anyway i've written this one off - you win some / you lose some - so from my point of view it can only get better!
13. Woolworths
D1gg3r - 21 Nov'08 - 20:02 - 1077 of 1085
So sorry to hear those that lost big money here especially today.I stand firm and to loose my original 160k shares or £14000 if I get nothing. I mentally ring fenced this stock a long time ago so just watching with interest now no pain attached.
As for the gloaters - I see no point in sadistic pleasure, after all what goes around in this world my friends tends to come back ten fold, best of luck to those holding a genuine interest here. Afternoon lovely Spights:~)(Robbie_3)
So sorry to hear those that lost big money here especially today.I stand firm and to loose my original 160k shares or £14000 if I get nothing. I mentally ring fenced this stock a long time ago so just watching with interest now no pain attached.
As for the gloaters - I see no point in sadistic pleasure, after all what goes around in this world my friends tends to come back ten fold, best of luck to those holding a genuine interest here. Afternoon lovely Spights:~)(Robbie_3)
Monday, 17 November 2008
12. Petards
damloy - 19 Oct'08 - 13:55 - 1080 of 1081
Did indeed timbo003 and I guess that is the only saving grace. I'm not a professional investor so don't quite understand how I would avail of the tax reliefs.
Sorry to say I was also persuaded by some poxy 'venture-capital' outfit to stick over £5K into Petards which I think is about to go down the toilet. I think it also might be EIS qualifying so maybe I can recover something via the taxman. Any idea how I go about that? Thanks.
PS....yes I know a plonker like myself should have kept my money in the bank.....WHOOPS!....Did I say in the BANK!!!!!!!...In Iceland perhaps!
Did indeed timbo003 and I guess that is the only saving grace. I'm not a professional investor so don't quite understand how I would avail of the tax reliefs.
Sorry to say I was also persuaded by some poxy 'venture-capital' outfit to stick over £5K into Petards which I think is about to go down the toilet. I think it also might be EIS qualifying so maybe I can recover something via the taxman. Any idea how I go about that? Thanks.
PS....yes I know a plonker like myself should have kept my money in the bank.....WHOOPS!....Did I say in the BANK!!!!!!!...In Iceland perhaps!
11. Hardy Amies *BUST*
pictureframe - 26 Sep'08 - 07:13 - 1065 of 1081
Fuc+ thats £10k down the river by the looks of it
Fuc+ thats £10k down the river by the looks of it
10. Hardy Amies *BUST*
damloy - 16 Oct'08 - 08:21 - 1078 of 1081
I was persuaded by a venture-capital outfit to invest £6K in this waste of space. I am not a professional investor.....Yes I know I should have kept my mons in the bank!!!!.....But what does all this mean.....Is the whole lot gone?....What do I do Now?....Any advice would be welcome.
I was persuaded by a venture-capital outfit to invest £6K in this waste of space. I am not a professional investor.....Yes I know I should have kept my mons in the bank!!!!.....But what does all this mean.....Is the whole lot gone?....What do I do Now?....Any advice would be welcome.
9. Mercator Gold *BUST*
Parsons - 16 Oct'08 - 21:29 - 5000 of 5042
I have ended up with 1000000 shares and when they made the announcement of the receiver appointed I felt SICK however hopefully management have set the company up using their braines and the company have a future.All I will say is that for all those gold bulls you are now very confused . Dont give up when the world realize that the bankers of the world are issuing "FUNNY MONEY " then GOLD WILL GO UP!!!!!!!
I have ended up with 1000000 shares and when they made the announcement of the receiver appointed I felt SICK however hopefully management have set the company up using their braines and the company have a future.All I will say is that for all those gold bulls you are now very confused . Dont give up when the world realize that the bankers of the world are issuing "FUNNY MONEY " then GOLD WILL GO UP!!!!!!!
8. Mercator Gold *BUST*
jennyj - 9 Oct'08 - 18:19 - 2249 of 2274
Administrators got pulled in on MCR today.Thats a few K im out of pocket :(
Administrators got pulled in on MCR today.Thats a few K im out of pocket :(
7. Silverjet *BUST*
bordersboy - 4 May'08 - 17:36 - 618 of 734
thanks drewz,i've spent £1907 which are now valued at £1525 and looks that they will keep dropping. I dont mind risk but not big risk as to walk away from £1500 when i know it could be utilised on a better company.
Im hoping ( fingers crossed ) that some news very soon may just up this share price. I now wish i carried out more homework than jumping on the bandwagon.
thanks drewz,i've spent £1907 which are now valued at £1525 and looks that they will keep dropping. I dont mind risk but not big risk as to walk away from £1500 when i know it could be utilised on a better company.
Im hoping ( fingers crossed ) that some news very soon may just up this share price. I now wish i carried out more homework than jumping on the bandwagon.
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