Directional Bull Bet Gone Wrong, Near 100% Loss in 9 months

A hedge fund manager told clients he is "truly sorry" for losing virtually all their money.

Owen Li, the founder of Canarsie Capital in New York, said Tuesday he had lost all but $200,000 of the firm's capital—down from the roughly $100 million it ran as of late March.

"I take responsibility for this terrible outcome," Li wrote in a letter to investors, which was obtained by CNBC.com.

"My only hope is that you understand that I acted in an attempt—however misguided—to generate higher returns for the fund and its investors. But even so, I acted overzealously, causing you devastating losses for which there is no excuse," he added.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102356275#.

JKX

Declan2   3 Dec'14

Had £65K invested in this pos @ £1.35, took my loss at about 80p, never thought it would go this low, but now I'd say it'll go bust

POG

forwood   19 Dec'14

was out his pm - just as well. I sold yesterday as I thought there might be shenanigans today. Had buy orders in at 6.6 - thankfully triggered lower but this is a dreadful loss of value. 70% gone since the beginning of the month. Completely unjustified, but there you are, that's the sodding market for you. Will be skiing next week, so wish you all as happy a Christmas as you can have.


crl123  23 Dec'14 LSE
This is a hard question.
The amount that you hold will be diluted by 15 times overnight if you do not buy any rights issue shares.
the price will probably be 5p around that time (immediately after rights issue). It could even fall.
Nil paid cash wil be very small and hardly dent your dilution.
You would have to inject new money (but £225,000 or part of is huge) to make any difference.
It is an incredibly bitter pill to be forced to swallow.
I have lost £90,000 by selling as I knew i could not afford the 15-1. It is agony.
Others have lost their own fortunes.
Leaving your money and doing nothing just leaves it worth peanuts.
It is hardly worth selling anything right now at 6p.
It is worth trying to understand your options now.

Relying on nil-rights shares will give you just a scratch in the paintwork.

If you decide to reject the offer , it is voicing your dismay at theft.

---

you have spent £6o,ooo on a share asking you for £225,000 just to stay where you are.
Can you afford this?
It is outright abuse.
they can offer a better deal.
one can never know if one says yes that's ok.
Admin would noy be their preferred choice.

RRR

ciao4niao   11 Dec'14
I have just posted this on the RGM board.
Hi guys

In the past I arranged meetings between a small group of investors in AB's companies and AB.

A few who heard of the meetings were aggrieved that those attending were treated favourably and getting 'nods and winks'.

Not so. They were business like and views exchanged candidly.

The following is a copy of an e-mail I sent to B**l after a meeting on the 26th April 2013 and it covers most of the matters discussed. Judge for yourselves whether it was a chummy backslapping event or not and remember this was written EIGHTEEN MONTHS AGO.

"Good morning Andrew
The following outlines just a few of the concerns that your hopelessly optimistic written and verbal announcements have had on investors who pay your generous salaries.

Investing has and always will be a risk. But it is a lot more risky if existing and potential investors are fed misleading information by the CEO, which they take on trust to be reasonably accurate and possible to achieve. To underscore that, only one example, amongst several, is necessary. Colombia, which you have never been comfortable discussing in all the meetings I have had with you.

What you said during your Miningm***n interview about investors over extending themselves, just does not cut it. Neither will referring to the Disclaimer Statement at the beginning of Powerpoint presentations.

Many RRR investors have sold at very large losses and invested in RGM, not because of you, or the assets the company owns, but primarily because of the DNi process and the likely success of the flotation, when it happens.

The strategy of both companies seems to have been ‘scattergun’ and the modus operandi, ‘knee jerk’, supported by more than doubling the shares in issue and the market caps. of both falling by around 95%. I, and many others, don’t buy the simplistic argument that RRR and RGM are just mirroring the sector. That is purely a deflection away from the failings of the Boards of both companies. Sirius Resources and Amur Minerals are good examples of the contrary.

“We deliver” and “we are delivering value” to shareholders is patently not true. If that were an advertisement, the ASA would be asking serious questions.

You keep repeating the mantra, “we’re in a buyers market”. We certainly are, as the sale of the Oracle shares proves. Both companies are extremely vulnerable to a take out at very low prices. If they are, and you were to be appointed to the acquiring company’s board(s), many investors will have some seriously disturbing and suspicious thoughts.

You have been managing the companies as though they are major mining conglomerates with huge cash reserves, whereas, the reality is that both are struggling AIM tiddlers with very weak balance sheets.

Using the words “war chest” to obtain further “bargains” in a buyer’s market is delusional given the state of both the balance sheets and neither company is generating any income. We can barely afford to pay the administrative expenses, never mind any minor exploration costs, of both companies. But of course, you can always do an ‘Oliver’ and pick the pockets of your shareholders with further dilutions at ever decreasing prices. What the hell, they’re only gullible PIs and financial cannon fodder for flamboyant CEOs.

Were John Harvey-J***s to look at the balances sheets of both companies, the variety and locations of the projects and their drain on all resources, he would recommend that you get rid of the majority and concentrate on those that are most likely to deliver the greatest value to shareholders in the shortest period of time. In short, “stick to your knitting”. Both companies need to make some very tough business decisions and get rid of the rest – soon, please!

Why can’t you do a Sirius Resources for your shareholders? They decided on their plan of action and implemented it to the letter whilst keeping their investors fully informed with RNSs every two or so weeks. With RRR and RGM, often getting information is like extracting teeth, without an anaesthetic.

And this brings me to another point. You have a habit of making comments designed to deflect and devalue a point which is being put to you. For example, commenting that Sirius were “lucky” and that JH-J’s company doctor program was pulled, is beside the point. You know precisely the points being made, but you sought to be deliberately diversionary.

At the RGM AGM, you said that February was going to be “interesting”. Well it certainly was, but not to the benefit of your shareholding colleagues!

I note that you are more legalistic in responses in which you cover yourself if things you describe do not turn out as expected. On one hand that is good, but on the other, it is seen as the means of passing the buck.

Consider the following:-

Colombia – both buying and selling

Greenland – part disposal

Kansai/Arial Partners – acquiring a majority stake

RMR – part disposal, very slow process. Why deal with such a small shell with limited resources?

The common denominator is obvious. However, you are seemingly never at fault; there is always somebody else, or other circumstance to blame!

Approximately two years ago at a presentation at the Chesterfield Hotel, in response to a question about Kansai, you said, “ask me again in a few days”. Andrew, what precisely was it that you thought might happen in “a few days” that prompted you to say that? Or was it another of your mischievous comments to keep your shareholders in high anticipation mode and 'paint-balling' the boards with "good news in a few days" type posts?

You are obviously aware your credibility with your shareholders is destroyed. Not by them, but yourself. After more than a year since it was announced, most now doubt that there was ever a serious buyer for Colombia.

The excuses that Ashmont are busy doing other deals, just isn’t credible any more. Many believe it was just a ruse to withhold the very poor production figures, which reflects the scale of the problems there. As I said during our last meeting, it is time to tell Ashmont (excuse me) “to shit, or get off the pot”, especially, as you say, there is another bidder for the business.

So, again I ask, when are you going to release the production figures as you hinted you were considering doing, during our last meeting?

In your e-mail reply to “omarinvestor” dated the 16th November 2012, in response to my recommendation that Manoli be voted off the Board, your explanations of the background to the Colombian situation, is an indictment that RRR’s due diligence wasn't nearly thorough enough and the non-executive directors were not doing their jobs of questioning the whole rationality and feasibility of the investment on all levels.

Ashmont, according to the RNSs, were given three months to do due diligence. The real reason why you stopped releasing the production figures is because you realized that the RRR Board had been 'sold a pup' in Colombia. The RNSs from June '10 to March '12 prove this and are riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions to those preceding and following, and to what you told me personally at various presentations.

Being Chairman and CEO of both interlinked companies affords you too much power, allowing you to proceed on flamboyant and expansive projects to the detriment of your shareholders. The non-executive directors do not seem to be able to provide the necessary restraining influence on you to protect shareholders, which is their most important function. It is time for you to relinquish one of your executive roles in both companies. Please tell me you seriously going to consider doing this?

Another thing, which intrigues me, is that fact that you draw most of your income from RRR and yet you have far more investment in RGM. It seems that RRR is being treated as the sacrificial lamb.

This will concern you. It’s not just the shareholders that are deeply concerned about the management of both companies, but also your staff.

Several weeks ago, by pure chance, I literally bumped into one of your staff in London. We chatted. I flippantly asked, “How goes the battle at Eastbourne Mews’? A rather limp and resigned smile. I asked if they were overworked? “No, but a little concerned about the direction of the company. They did not say which, but they thought you have been “a bit naïve, over optimistic and cavalier” and they agreed with some comments on the boards.

Shocked at a staff member expressing such opinions, I told them my ii avatar. They knew it was I who wanted Manoli voted off the BoD … and said they agreed with me!

At that point they obviously realised that they had said too much and changed the subject.

There are serious implications there for you to think about. Is there only one staff member who thinks this way? Probably not! And, even if it is only one, it should concern you that they do have those opinions of your management style. The question is, should I have interpreted their opinion as a secret 'sell' signal'?

In conclusion, please answer the following questions. What can and will you do:

1. to restore shareholders’ faith in your stewardship of both companies?

2. to relinquish one of your two executive roles in RRR and RGM

3. to demonstrate you have a very clear strategy for the future to prevent the collapse of both companies?

4. to have board colleagues with appropriate skill sets to deliver investors’ expectations?

5. to recognise the need to severely prune the number of operations and to sell the rest?

6. to deliver value back to shareholders who have had their investments decimated by the lack of progress on several fronts?

7. and when will you release all the El Limon and Machuca production figures in a clearly understandable format so that they can be easily compared to previous figures.

I look forward to your comments on the general points and replies to the above questions within a week. I am sure that Manoli and Mike can provide some of the answers to the Colombian questions.

Regards

gresty142   11 Dec'14
I rescued my remaining £80 the other day, after investing thousands @ 5p & 7p
Ah well suppose that's just tough t!tty.

jeffguru   12 Dec'14
Just going through some old paperwork from a few years back, I had £200,000 RRR shares then. Now about £1500. I would quite like to get AB in a boxing ring and pummel the **** to a pulp. After that I could turn the gloves on myself. Sheesh.

wigan49   14 Dec'14
This Bitch is finished. This Bitch has cost me £40K. This f*cking Bitch.......
AB should change his name to A Bitch.....

HIBU (WAS YELL) *SUSPENDED*

corrado8
  25 Jul'13 - 07:18 - 8240 of 8369   0 0

WELL WE ALL KNEW THE RISK IS A DISAPOINTMENT AS THE COMPANY WILL CONTINUE TO TRADE AND MAKE PROFIT.NOT GOOD AT ALL AND CAN WE FIGHT BACK AS A GROUP?I DOUBT ABOUT IT THIS EERCISE HAS COST ME MORE THAN 40K OF LOSSES.I FEEL SORRY FOR THE INVESTORS THAT RELAY ON THEIR SHARE FOR LATER IN THEIR LIFE TO CASH THEM IN AS FOR ME I AM A GAMBLER AND I LOST IN THIS TRADE.

---

55SL
  25 Jul'13 - 07:41 - 8255 of 8369   0 0

I'm down £26k on this lemon it's a tough lesson but you've got to take it.

There where plenty of opportunities to get out so if you are still holding you only have yourself to blame.

To be fair 12,000 boys and girls have still got jobs (for now) so that's got to be a positive.


---


jainvic
  25 Jul'13 - 08:02 - 8258 of 8369   0 0

Well this is my first post on here. Been doing shares for a very long time but never seem to get it right. Aim shares are just like a casino where genuine investors have very little chance of making money. From what i can see there is far too much in the way of underhandedness from so called people in the know and indeed from people that run companies such as Hibu and the market. What a complete joke Hibu has turned out to be.

I know it was high risk and yes I should have know better than to invest in such a poorly run company. All the mis-information and lies given by Pocock et al should have made me not want to touch this pile of rubbish with a barge pole. There was mention of microsoft having an interest and such. All of the so called plus points seem be have been lies by these bunch of crooks.

The one reason why i stuck with this is the one comment by the management that suggested shareholders interest will be considered or words to that effect. Hindsight obviously comes to mind.

Of course the people at the top will be fine...it's always the way. I just hope there is a bit of karma whereby these people that have screwed us over get their comeuppance.

It would seem aim shares are for the very lucky or very brave. I think most people lose in the end with aim and that includes me. I'm left with a loss of about £4k this time round and i'm sure other investors have lost more.

I never did join the HSG group as i was not sure it would have any real effect. Unfortunately this seems to be the case.

I hope to live another day. Maybe will have more chance swimming in shark infested waters than investing in aim.......


---


spennysimmo
  25 Jul'13 - 15:03 - 8329 of 8369   0 0

What a complete idiot, who will probably not learn from his naive mistakes. Let's break it down and translate:

Dear Mr Pocock

I have been a shareholder in Yell / Hibu since March 2009. I always believed in the potential of the company and still believe it will thrive.

Hence, over the 4 years I have accumulated over 13million shares, this represents my life savings! I have not sold any shares even when reached the peak of 88p in 2009, as I could see the potential.

[So you didn't take any profits off the table whatsoever when you clearly would have been in profit as you thought it would just keep going up. First mistake, greed.]

I know these are just shares and shouldn't invest more than one can loose, but I truly trusted you and that you would turn this company around.

[Why did you trust him. Because you had a vested interest when he took over and you were wearing rose tinted glasses, that is why. It was easier to "trust" him and hope for the best than to cut your losses.]


Your announcement today of complete wipe out for shareholders was completely devastating news for me and my family! I don't know how I will face my wife and children now to tell them their future money has been all lost!

[Why was it devastating news for you? If you had been bothered to read all the announcements from a company where all your life savings were invested you may have realised that you were being warned repeatedly that the shares will have little or no value"]

I was expecting the restructure to reduce current shareholders share, for which I was happy as I would still be part of Hibu going forward. I was not expecting you to negotiate a deal that would result in complete wipe-out of current shareholders (While I note the directors keep their jobs!). [You were warned that no value could be the case] I am sure there could have been some win- win compromise situation. Even if just 5% of the company was left or just 1-2p payout for current shareholders, that would have been at least something! That would not have been a big deal for the Co-Com to compromise on, but it seems the people that have, just get greedier. I don't know how the Board or Co-Com can sleep at night knowing you have ruined peoples lives and future! [Don't blame others. You bought them, you presumably read the warnings and you chose not to sell.]

Thank you.

HIBU

   

seize the day is sad
  3 Feb'13 - 09:28 - 5798 of 6574

Statm
Too late, thanks for the obvious tip, anybody knows that, only an idiot can ignory. I did. Im pennyless. Modt of my hibu gamble is on a cred card and th rest was all my savings . Im left with 11k debt. Fck

risk1
  3 Feb'13 - 11:02 - 5799 of 6574

Dont panic captain hope it finishes better than Minus 11k




seize the day is sad
  3 Feb'13 - 23:28 - 5800 of 6574

risk1
i hope so but i have lost faith (faith=98% of my money)

KNIGEL
  3 Feb'13 - 23:34 - 5801 of 6574

News due real soon... hope existing shareholders get something out of this restructuring...

squire007
  4 Feb'13 - 09:26 - 5802 of 6574

Too damn quiet for anything to happen just yet !!!! we will see an uplift when the deal gets close ............. GLA

reallyrich
  4 Feb'13 - 09:34 - 5803 of 6574

or a downdrift

seize the day is sad
  4 Feb'13 - 12:28 - 5804 of 6574

or a shaft

risk1
  4 Feb'13 - 12:41 - 5805 of 6574

3 Feb'13 - 23:34 - 5801 of 5804 0 0

News due real soon... hope existing shareholders get something out of this restructuring...

I bet a lot of these shares are held by hedge funds ready for the restructure

win win for them

win on deal for debt ie) get back more than they paid for it in the first place

win on the bounce in the sp as they bought the shares back at 0.2- 0.4 after shorting from much higher prices

Just wait and see but i think little or no value means more than 0.33p

I would guess at 1p plus which is still less than 5% of the company

Headline = massive dilution wipeout for the ordinary shareholder

But a shareholder paying 0.33p

Maybe a good punt??

We shall see

all imo no advice intended


saj190
  4 Feb'13 - 13:55 - 5806 of 6574

Still no news, I am guessing that whatever is going to happen will be on 12th of Feb 2013 when we get the third quarter results.

KULVINDER
  5 Feb'13 - 13:00 - 5807 of 6574

STD, you not alone with your losses, there are are big losses for members on the 3i bb also just like you and me, I have removed the poster names;


12:24 Re: Passing the time 2

lets hope we are left with some "little value"...


11:04 Re: Passing the time

just over 4 million ..2.3p average....nice work
------------
Not really; bear in mind I initially got in over 18 months ago and was sat on a 35k loss. Shorting it come results day saw me break even last year
Left it alone at 7p and came back sub 1p; having promised myself I would not touch this nutty share again


Broke my promise. Bought 6mill at 0.72p then the following day "no value" etc etc!
SO a further 6mill at 0.29 and 0.3. Giving a grand total of just over 12mill at 0.464

I am down (again) ,showing a current loss of just over 19k.
I pity the fool....


10:54 Re: Passing the time 2

just over 4 million ..2.3p average....nice work !!


10:39 Re: Passing the time 2

Well I hold 2,516,867 with a break even of 4p gawd help me


10:39 Re: Passing the time 2

12.4mill
b/e 0.46p


10:30 HoldPassing the time 2

At least the last posting generated something to pass the time away. My observation is that the holding PIs have a considerable share holding and are generally miffed with the treatment from the Hibu BOD, (especially Johnny!!) and in particular the Investor Relations "hotline".

So what pressure can we bring to bear, what about a quick trawl of the shares held? Taking out the 3 biggest share holders, FIL, Standard and Invesco there are around 2041.2M shares in the market.

I hold 1.4M, my B/E is now 8.5p, averaged down a bit, thanks Ace,etc...; I know I am daft!

Whats the number of shares on this BB??


10:14 Re: Patience

Don't worry won't belong before news

The Group can confirm that the options being considered are likely to result in little or no value being attributed to the Group's ordinary shares.


10:13 Re: Patience

Boy o boy patience. Yes well all the longtermers here will know about patience. No one has a clue as to what is going to happen here. Maybe the BOD or the CoCom do, but we don't. I am heartened by the fact that there are still ii holding here. I have the equivalent of second hand SMART brabus left in here, something that I am quite prepared to leave and gamble with. I may even get my Ferrari California back. who knows. wait wait wait.
I have been tempted to put the cost of a new exhaust system in here for the SMART and maybe some new tyres. But my head is telling me no.


10:04 Patience

This share has truly taught me the meaning of patience. How long has it been and we haven't even had an update to at least say "we haven't forgotten about you"


09:52 Re: No warning reg Q3 results

If revenues are stabalised and future growth is expected then I think creditors might tell the company keep the business as usual and forget about restructuring. As we all know board is initiating this restrcuturing of debt not the lenders.
There hasn't been any profit warning or optimistic trading statement which really suggesst that revenues must have been stablised and the expectation is for growth because of hopefull futuristic expectation of economy in general.


09:23 Re: Re| Passing the time

I am also left with 4m shares. Unfortunately even after averaging down my B/E is just over 6p. I am sure there are others in a worst position but we will just have to wait and see - not long now hopefully.



08:48 Re: Re| Passing the time
I'm grateful I haven't lost that kind of money, and all I can do is wish you all the best and hope you are greatly rewarded for your sweat and dedication.

I'm comfortable to be averaging at under a penny, so my losses can't even be compared to yours.

I'm going to average down further to .4p or .5p if it stays this low.


08:32 Re: Re| Passing the time

Your brave man. 300K loss and still buying. Fortune favours the brave.
I stopped buying last year when my losses hit 150k. All is left is 4 million shares. Disaster!


08:17 BuyRe: Passing the time

"I doubt that is all in though, only I could be so foolish"

Or smart, depending on what the result is


Mon 20:18 Re: Re| Passing the time

glad you are still here and have not thrown the towel in. I still opine that shareholders will emerge unscathed and your current loss will abate in record time. I too am sitting on a 300k loss and am still buying. So sorry to hear of your marriage breakdown and hope it was not as a result of this investment, I sincerely hope you can find a fulfilling relationship. When this comes good, and it will, then any resulting affects may go some way to the personal pain and suffering you have had to endure.




Mon 13:01 Re: Passing the time

I wrote to the Investor Relations line months ago to ask who was representing the shareholder interests in the bank restructuring negotiations, but I received no response. I assume that there is no one representing us, in particular since the management team waived their share options last year in place of cash incentives dependent upon future performance. Since we as shareholders were not a party to this agreement nor were we consulted on it, I am wondering with whom this agreement was made. The compensation committee perhaps (if there is one).

I run a private equity fund and when such negotiations with the banks take place, we actively represent the shareholders' interests in a tri-party negotiation. In the case of a Publically quoted company without activist shareholders, management generally look after themselves and the employees first and have no incentive to fight for the shareholders unless they themselves hold a meaningful stake. This is not the case at HiBu. Accordingly, I would not hold my breath expecting any shareholder value going forward. Since I am down more than GBP 630k, I am not bothering to sell now - just in case a miracle happens. We can consider legal action later once we know the outcome of the structuring talks.




seize the day is sad
  5 Feb'13 - 16:24 - 5808 of 6574

fck, my god waht figures!

i hear the word patience. nothing to do with it. I am extremely impatient by nature but not selling 22k£ worth of investment that now has a value of 1000 quid is just being sensible not patient, I find it th emost obvious thing to do and I don't feel any urge to sell at all. To consolidate a loss of 21K?? How silly. Losing all will make now hardly any difference.

I still hope, but I would not dream of averaging down, even is my b/e is 5.5p.



freddie ferret
  5 Feb'13 - 17:21 - 5809 of 6574

I feel sorry for people that bought TOO high.

VK74
  5 Feb'13 - 20:52 - 5810 of 6574

by the looks of it, it does not matter if you bought high or low, I have put 9k in this and I will lose it all, same thing I lost another 9k on stupid HMV

*HMV* Shares suspended, bust

rossstar3 

  15 Jan'13 - 15:23 - 18046 of 18050 

whats happened ? have i lost my 30 grand?

JJB?

notanewmember2

  6 Sep'12 - 06:08 - 2468 of 2468  

Blacks are not the only example. Clinton Cards, Woolworths, Game, Luminar, Connaught, Land of Leather, Coffee Republic, Northern Rock, Bradford and Bingley, Hardy Amies, ROK, MFI, etc.. etc..

I don't know for sure if JJB will go down the same route but my trade plans are based on how much I could lose first rather than how much I can make.

I have been watching the stock market too long! I have kept some records at http://hugestockmarket-losses.blogspot.co.uk

Also look at post number 3 http://uk.advfn.com/cmn/fbb/thread.php3?id=21869756 And ask yourself these questions.

If you want to look at a less risky stock, pick one that makes money - BOK, SEPU, CML, PAF (riskiest), TALK, IGRE, No more long shots.

I will bugger off now.

DYOR GLA

Game Group *Bust*

justthemoney - 2 Apr'12 - 17:24 - 4127 of 4127

Couldn't agree more...a daylight robbery. £80k down the cesspit called the city.
Chaps, this cannot happen in the US, it is illegal. Company directors, administrators etc..., should extract the best value for shareholders from any situation the company may find itself in. And it is all overlooked by the shareholders. Hence Blue Shore's remarks. Here in UK if they choose so, they can do it in such a way that results in total loss of shareholder value...and it is all legal...and there is nothing you as a part owner of the company can do about it. Next time you invest in UK stock market, have a good look at the Board credentials and not just the business....and in any case limit your investment to any single stock to 10%.
By pushing company into admin, the crooks have saved: £10m in wages, £30m-50m in redundancy payments, 10m in rent payments, £20m-40m for buying out leases, £40m+ in shareholder equity...and in the process got hold of a perfectly good business for £0.

Game Group *Bust*

justthemoney - 21 Mar'12 - 12:49 - 6989 of 7013

The Board statement is self contradictory, on the one hand they say that they are not in control of the business finances, and on the other hand that shares are worthless. Chaps, shareholders have been taken for a ride here. The buyers were there 2 weeks ago but they didn't want to let it through. With Wal-Mart, OpCapita or anyone else except the GameStop, the Board would lose their jobs. As it stands they'll stay behind the steering wheel of a new company valued at I guess at least £200m.

Shareholders in this country are really sheep to let it go quietly. At the end of the day they are the owners of the company and should at least scrutinise what is going on. In the US this sort of behaviour is illegal, and although shareholders may not get anything back (if it proves that there are no assets), the Board (those responsible) would be behind the bars.

Sorry for all long term holders who were trapped with 80-99% loss bracket.
And even more sorry for the hard working staff who are destined to lose their jobs.

Ta ta from me, off to nurse my losses.

Worldspreads *Bust*

Sun 22:03
Re: To be wound up

doctorh


I think the phrase rhymes with 'clucking bell'.....

Would you all excuse me for a moment whilst I let out a short, sharp,

AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!

After all, it's not every day I drop a six figure sum... hang on..

AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Thanks, that's better!

Now before anyone lectures me on the folly of trading GKP, can I just point out that I had simply adopted a strategy to swerve a bit of CGT by supplementing my main holding of physical stock with a spread bet position, fully backed with cash deposits to avoid getting stopped out.

That has been closed this evening at 260.35p. Quite apart from loss of potential GKP paper profit, and a position from 140p that is impossible to rebuild, I am facing a loss of most of the cash I deposited - now only looking at an eventual £50k FSA compensation which will no doubt take a lot longer than the GKP timeframe of events are likely to unfold.

I am also wondering how much Worldspreads are themselves exposed to GKP. I understand they cover their net position in the market, and I am also assuming the majority of clients are long. All my positions have been closed out today which I presume means when the market opens tomorrow there may be some big sales going through on Monday.

Just for once I am actually hoping that we DON'T wake up to a big GKP RNS tomorrow...

a very p155ed off doctorh

Worldspreads *BUST*

Nasdaq_Investor - 17 Mar'12 - 09:00 - 153 of 379

Grateful if someone who knows about these things can enlighten with a few answers although I appreciate it's hard without knowing the reality.

Got about 200k in various stocks and paid a lot of margin so liquidation value about 170k.

FT are suggesting IG, Capital Spreads and ETX as possible buyers but would the assets just transfer over without any loss to the client to any acquirer? I appreciate it depends on what they pay. All depends on what they perceive a client base of 5,000 or so is worth. Is a non-painful (for clients) takeover realistic given (based on the FT) the takeover company would have to pay about 5m to balance the books? (About £6m should be still be there in cash and if there is a black hole of 10 to 12m that leaves between 4m to 6m deficit). Or is there a scenario where the takeover company just takes the accounts in a pre-pack - what would s/bet account holders get then?

If no takeover do they just liquidate all assets and clients - retail and prof get paid out as creditors pro-rata and claim the deficit (50k for Professional and I believe 85k for retail) from the FSA?

Any chance of suing the auditors if, as alleged in the FT, they audited whist alleged fraud took place?

Any difference if there is a takeover situation for retail clients and professional clients? I'm a retail client although they did try to get me to sign-up for prof client status but I advised my circumstances didn't fit.

Sorry for the simplistic questions and multiple questions but my mind is a bit middled after all this.

I think Spreadex just took-over MF Global client list but not the actual accounts i.e. a mailing list in the hope broke clients would trade with them.

WorldSpreads *Bust*

Steveglobal4 - 18 Mar'12 - 20:37 - 240 of 379

yes, and i lost 40k alone friday pm on one stock because of all this


Steveglobal4 -18 Mar'12 - 21:03 - 246 of 379

wife has said she is going to leave me if i dont get out of spread beting



Steveglobal4- 19 Mar'12 - 20:50 - 357 of 379

i got through earlier to adminstrators, well they have made me feel alot worse tonite,

I asked if our money in the segregated account was going to be used for the adminstration costs, she reply no, then i relised it was mixed with worldspread money anyways so who knows,

I then said would there be any funds left once adminstration costs were taken out, she didnt think so,

I asked if i should report the crime with my local police she said no,

she then said further info would be on the site within 2 days, how to apply for lost funds

then she said further news should be released friday, ie figures,

After the long converstation, im am a lot less hopeful of recieving the 55 percent plus 50k some have mentioned, i was made to think we will be lucky if we get the fsa 50k, but when first on the phone she said you should get all of it, i kept asking do you mean all of the 50k fsa or all of my complete cash balance again, she would then not answer the question, there is something they are not telling us, which i find not good.

I then asked has the crime been reported to the police, she paused for a long time, and i think she said no, i asked her to repeat and she wouldnt, i pushed on this and she said investigations are taking place.

I mentioned the action group on here, i said should i join, she said it wasnt a good idea. im trying to work out what this means, does it mean all the money will be returned,

to be honest, i wish i would not of phoned, as i was beginning to except what has happened, now i cannot not again as im worried what percentage we will get.

Can anyone else post there conversations uo here so we can try and piece things together.

cheers

I then questions the 50k and said isnt it supposed to be 85k as the money was a cash balance as the bets were closed and i have a screen shot of the cash balance in a segregated account, she then was unsure of the answer.

Game Group

justthemoney - 12 Mar'12 - 21:54 - 2091 of 2105

Yep £80k is a hefty loss by any measure. No, I will not give my money to fund managers as I beat them year after year. This is my first single stock wipe-out and I hope the last. In any case lessons learned, up to 10% of investable cash into any single stock. Shares I tend to buy when undervalued and reinvest dividends until they become overvalued. I don't trade them and seldom take losses. This one to be honest I didn't see coming. The company made a small loss, and the first loss in years as well as a new hardware cycle just around the corner did not warrant for getting out at a loss. Also I tend to follow institutions and they were buying. Only when EA announced fallout with GMG did I smell the rat, but by that time my loss was already rather large. In any case I'm confident that my other shares will do well and get their usual 25% per annum which would annul GMG loss within 2 years. I use stock market as a low effort investment vehicle (buy and hold and reinvest dividends) as anything else would result in lower returns. What I do actively trade is the FOREX market. Several times a day, and have been doing rather well (2%-5% per month with very low leverage 2% and almost no drawdowns). The idea being that you must loose your opinion and follow price action alone. Anyone trading stocks especially buying this pile of crap and hoping for a bounce is a pure gambler. Go and trade FOREX where 3rd party risks are very small, and price action is much more predictable. 4 trillion USD a day market, almost unlimited liquidity on major pairs. And if you want your heart race, you can leverage 1:100 easily. Very sorry to see shareholders wiped-out, as most of us bought into the genuine recovery story. Good luck chaps and I hope this episode didn't kill anyone (financially).

Lloyds, Royal Bank Of Scotland

Dope007 - 12 Mar'12 - 16:07 - 2026 of 2028

justthemoney. I lost more on LLOY and RBS. Their level of crookedness goes beyond anything seen here.

Game Group

justthemoney - 12 Mar'12 - 15:52 - 2023 of 2024

Very sorry for all shareholders (including me) who genuinely believed in the good prospects of the company and invested accordingly. We've been taken for a ride by a criminal gang who are protected by the law. I've lost £80k, a 30% of my entire portfolio. Mistakes learned and will never invest more than 10% into a single stock. What happened here is a robbery at a stroke of the pen. So much from me, awaiting shares suspension so I can claim capital losses.

Univision

buggy - 19 Jul'11 - 08:03 - 889 of 897

...Though I really do need some straws to clutch at here, as I have over £75K invested and near enough 90% loss....My fault I know. At one time I thought this was my oportunity to get exposure to far eastern market).


Anyway as said, it is not worth my while selling now so will see it to the end ...but I am not blinkered enough to lose objectivity. I ceased believing in Santa a while back.

29. Coffee Republic *Delisted*

JAF1948 - 27 Oct'09 - 16:43 - 5779 of 5786


ws,

You'll never change ! Why let a silly thing like the fact that Barty lost all his investment in CR stop your idiotic postings (about £1.5 million I reckon).

I lost £80,000 but I've moved on. Perhaps you should too.

28. Coffee Republic *Delisted*

winning_streak - 14 Jul'09 - 12:28 - 5497 of 5498


And, Cricketer, IGNORE JAF - he will make out he's your friend then him, and all his little cronies will start insulting you and calling you a loser because you should have done your own research before parting with your well earned dosh!!!! They ripped £320k off crdirect. Took a franchise from one franchisee while he was in a coma in hospital - took one guys two franchises from him after he had organised a buyer for the one and sold them to the purchaser organised by the franchisee!! Took 4 franchisees from another chap, They repossess stores without giving notice and give you non of the support and training the promise you before they take their money - you have had a lucky escape in just losing a deposit, believe me.

Carwhite - 14 Jul'09 - 12:36 - 5498 of 5498


fully concur winning_streak

27. Coffee Republic *Delisted*

paulmhammond - 13 Jul'09 - 17:02 - 5474 of 5478


I removed it quickly, as I know you are popular here. I've just lost a small fortune, so really, don't push it, I might just react badly to it.

26. Coffee Republic *Delisted*

JAF1948 - 11 Jul'09 - 16:04 - 5441 of 5449


I'm back from a nice cruise and have just spend an hour or so reading this board.

WS, I have to say that I have never read so much bile, spite, and ignorant 2+2=5 writings by one person (yourself) in any place in my life. You have no idea what is going on, you have no idea what has happened this week and you have no idea what will happen in the future. You should count your blessings that Coffee Republic and/or Stephen Bartlett do not have sufficient money to sue you for libel and defamation. Despite the company failing, there is still no evidence of any wrongdoing by anyone.

I have lost a great deal of money, but it was my decision to invest and I stand by that decision.

25. Coffee Republic *Delisted*

winning_streak - 9 Jul'09 - 14:03 - 5342 of 5422


Well Paul, I'd own up to everything because you ain't going to walk away from this with any money anyway and well you know - so TELL THE TRUTH and make sure these crooks get what's coming to them - remember - Dan LOST £320k to them so, watch yourself.


---

winning_streak - 10 Jul'09 - 14:50 - 5413 of 5422


Lordkendal - it is a lot to lose, £160k. I am glad you have other assets to fall back on too. Do you know how much each franchisee that has had their store taken loses? Quite a lot more than £160k!! Also, did you know that a lot of these franchisees re-mortgaged their houses to make that investment - these people were not as smart as you - they were sold dreams by the dream makers at cr. Mis-sold imo with false verbal promises of turning over £500k a year after a couple of years - what they weren't told it they would get to keep their shop for 6 - 12 months, knowing that they were going to fail and then, cr would take back the shop and sell it on again to another unsuspecting, gullible person and the cycle would start again.

24. Coffee Republic *Delisted*

lordkendal - 10 Jul'09 - 11:50 - 5376 of 5422


I'm inclined to believe Daimonbok's prognosis but I’d like to also believe in WelshG as where there's life there's hope?? However I have mentally written off my £160k. It would be a very big surprise to discover all maybe not lost after all?? Where to get the truth??



---

lordkendal - 10 Jul'09 - 16:39 - 5417 of 5422


Daimonbok

Happy to have made someone happy today :-))

WS

When I was in business I also mortgaged and borrowed vast amounts when necessary. I never bought a franchise, as I was clever and creative enough to create my own business either from absolutely nothing in an empty building or taking over loss making businesses, all of which I owned 100%. I personally took all the risks and I personally took all the profits.

I did have a philosophy of not believing anything I was told and only 50% of what I saw. This stood me in good stead over the years. Everything in writing and I mean everything, nothing verbally, if said put it in writing.

Expect that everyone will want to have what you have and take preventative measures. In 40 years of running my own companies nobody took anything from me apart from the staff who thought it was their perks to pilfer, until I caught them!!

I am truly sorry for any franchisee who has been ill treated by anyone. I have seen, over the last 40 years a great many people who have failed mostly because of their own inadequacies but I do have sympathy for those who have failed because of the actions of others.

I can well live with the loss of £160k it just means I will buy an apartment overlooking the Med rather than a Villa however I do know some shareholders who have been badly affected and may not ever recover from their loss.

So it would appear that we are all losers, from both sides of the fence. I know that there is a really strong sense of abuse of trust and betrayal by SB from the shareholders, which I guess, is pretty much the same from all.



lordkendal - 10 Jul'09 - 23:05 - 5430 of 5431


Thanks Guy's looks as if i'm in for a bit of travelling.

Dan. You forget i can now only afford a small appartment :-)

WS

Believe me I feel £160k's worth of pain. I have left no pain myself on others only the pain I suffer for my greed in thinking that CR was a sure thing. Goes to show that even an experienced caterer like myself can come unstuck but then again I wasn’t running it, if I had I can guarantee you the outcome would have been different.

23. Coffee Republic *Delisted*

winning_streak - 9 Jul'09 - 20:04 - 5358 of 5358
But, don't let barstlett win ffs - KPMG do not find it even a misdemeanour that he stripped out his shop in Plymouth on Friday last. They know nothing about the churning and have set a deadline of Monday for closed bids. 83 requests for company details have been received - 2 of which are from contacts of mine - the details have NOT been received. This is all a heap of s**t and needs some pressure put on KPMG at the very least - as shareholders - put pressure on them - or lie there and just take it!!!! Paul £100k is it? Dan's 7 mates £100k each - That's £800k going down the toilet - barstlett needs to start paying the price of his shoddy scam.

Volkswagen *Bought by Porsche*

Adolf Merckle (18 March 1934 – 5 January 2009) was a businessman, stock trader, and one of the richest people in Germany.^[1]
Merckle was born in Dresden, Germany into a wealthy family. Most of his wealth came from inheritance. He developed his Bohemian (i.e. Czech) grandfather's chemical wholesale company into Germany's largest pharmaceutical wholesaler, Phoenix Pharmahandel. His family also owns the generic drug manufacturer Ratiopharm, and large parts of cement company HeidelbergCement as well as vehicle manufacturer Kässbohrer.
He was educated as a lawyer but spent most of his time investing. He lived in Germany with his wife and four children.
Merckle made a speculative investment based on his belief that Volkswagen shares would fall; however, in October 2008, Porsche SE's support of Volkswagen sent shares on the Xetra dax from €210.85 to over €1000 in less than two days (a short squeeze), resulting in losses estimated in the hundreds of millions of dollars for Merckle.^[2]
In 2007, he was worth US$12.8 billion by most estimates (Forbes), and by December 2008 he was worth $9.2 billion, a loss of $3.6 billion. In 2006, he was the world's 44th richest man, dropping to 96th place by December 2008, but still one of Germany's five richest men.

Suicide

Adolf Merckle committed suicide on 5 January 2009 by throwing himself in front of a train near his hometown of Blaubeuren.^[3][4] More than any other single investment, Merckle’s poorly timed short-selling of Volkswagen shares caused the financial distress that led to his death. Believing that Porsche could not complete its takeover of Volkswagen and would have to sell its shares, Merckle and others bet against Volkswagen stock. But Porsche had quietly and effectively cornered Volkswagen stock, so short-sellers such as Merckle could not buy enough Volkswagen stock to cover their short positions. Volkswagen stock therefore quintupled in value in a single day, causing billions in losses for those who had bet against Volkswagen's share price. Faced with such losses, Merckle's cement company was unable to make payments on a huge loan taken out to purchase an English competitor, Hanson.^[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Merckle